Princeton Spark S1 E1 The Odyssey of Mentorship with Laurence Latimer, Lynda Clarizio, Ashanthi Mathia I always like to go back to first principles. I'm a bit of a student of history and you think about the word “mentor” and where it comes from. If you remember Homer's The Odyssey... (Yes.) (Ocean sounds) Mentor was the person that Odysseus entrusted his son, young son at the time, to care for and to educate, as he went off on this 20 year expedition while he was going on the Odyssey. From the Princeton Entrepreneurship Council, this is the Princeton Spark. I’m Wright Seneres. (Theme music) The various people that make up the Princeton entrepreneurial and innovation ecosystem have long been at work, taking risks to bring transformational ideas and companies to the world, in the Nation’s Service and the Service of Humanity. These are the stories of Entrepreneurship the Princeton Way. At PEC, we support Princeton-connected startups and help to build the regional entrepreneurial ecosystem in New Jersey and beyond. Welcome to Season 2 of the Princeton Spark. First off, I’d like to thank everyone who listened, who rated us, who reviewed us (thank you kbrph2004), and who wrote in during our first season. It’s been a thrill and we can’t wait to bring you more. Like right now! (Drum crash) In this episode, we’ll explore mentorship. Even if you’re a solo entrepreneur, it takes a range of people around you to make an impact. Building a strong network of advisors and mentors is critical for any entrepreneurial endeavor, because no one does it alone. And so, how do you develop a good, productive relationship with a mentor? What kinds of questions should you be asking? What should you not do? We’ll get into all these questions and we’ll explore both sides of the table. (Electronic drum sound) At PEC we have a startup advising platform called OfficeHours. Entrepreneurial alumni with specific skills and knowledge can share with Princetonians looking for advice on their startup journeys. I spoke to two of our OfficeHours mentors to explore what it takes to have a productive mentoring relationship. The first one here is Laurence Latimer, whom you heard at the top of the show. Laurence: My name is Laurence Latimer. I am a graduate alumnus of Princeton University. I was at the Woodrow Wilson School and graduated in 2001. My current job, I serve as Head of Ventures for a company called IEX. And IEX is a technology company. We launched about seven years ago. And the first product that we launched was called the Investors Exchange that competes very directly with the New York Stock Exchange or NASDAQ, and we trade U.S. equities here. So if you want to buy 100 shares of Netflix or Apple, we're one of now 14 venues – soon to be more – where you can place that order on a national securities exchange. The second one is Lynda Clarizio. I caught up with her during our ultra successful New York City Tiger Entrepreneurs Conference in November 2019, so you may notice the boisterous crowd in the background. Lynda: Hi, I'm Lynda Clarizio. I'm Princeton class of 1982. And I've done a lot of things in my career. I've been a lawyer. I've been a CEO, and a president of several companies. Right now I sit on several public company boards and private company boards. I do advising to startups. And along with Joy Marcus, who's class of '83 at Princeton, I run an investment group called Brilliant Friends, which invests in women-led businesses. I asked them the same question. What should mentees do to have a good, productive relationship with a mentor? Laurence: Yeah, well, there's a few things that I would suggest: one, let me just start with there's no right answer. I mean, it's such a personal relationship and I think is really driven by just the sum of the personalities of the folks involved in addition to the experiences that everybody's bringing to the table. But it's such a personal thing. I always want to start there because there's no one right answer. Lynda echoed the relationship aspect of mentoring too. Lynda: The best mentor/mentee relationships are not just a 15 minute meeting, a 30 minute coffee, it's something that's really continuing. Mentoring is something that I take very seriously, by the way, and that's been really important to me, as I've advanced in my career as a mentee, and also now at the stage of my life where I spend a lot of time mentoring younger people. But to go to your question about the mentee, I think first it's really important that when you approach your mentor, you have a sense as to what you want out of the relationship, because it should be – if it's going to be successful – a continuing relationship. We’ll pick back up on this point about what you want to get out of mentoring later. But let’s continue on the relationship aspect. Laurence: Thinking about that, it starts with being a trust-based relationship. And I think that is just so important to really come back to and just reflect on as kind of the core meaning of the word. So if I'm if I'm a young person taking that into context, the first thing that I would say for everybody is don't force the issue. Any number of times, and as I'm getting older in my own career, you get younger people that come and say, “Hey, I want you to be my mentor.” And it's very difficult to engage like that? (Right.) Mentoring and being a mentor and being a mentee is such a personal relationship. It starts with relationships, it starts with trust, and you don't just build that with one conversation. You don't build that even with two conversations. It happens over time, and it happens very organically. (Musical transition) Laurence: Yeah, which is an unrewarding answer for someone who's looking for information now, and what do I do and how do I get there, but for real long-term relationships and real value added relationships, it's just that. It's a relationship. It's not a transaction. And so I encourage younger folks to treat it like a relationship, treat it like dating. If anything, (right, right) old school dating, not new school dating, you know, speed dating, but it's really, “I need to get to know this person.” (Yes.) To know whether I actually even trust what they're telling me. (Right.) I need to get to know this person to just understand that they have the kinds of experiences and insight that I'm looking for right now or in the future. And so again, I'm spending a lot of time on that, because I think it's so important. It's not a transaction, it's not a job description. It's really a relationship. Next we’ll hear from Laurence and Lynda about what to ask, and what not to do. And young people, early career people: you have something valuable to offer that you may not have realized that you had all along. That’s after the break. (A&E Day ad) Aaron Landsman: Hi, I'm Aaron Landsman. Pilar Castro-Kiltz: And I'm Pilar Castro-Kiltz. Aaron: And we're here to talk a little bit about Arts & Entrepreneurship Day on February 15. Pilar: The inaugural Arts & Entrepreneurship Day. Aaron: That's right. Pilar: Princeton Arts & Entrepreneurship Day is the first ever gathering on Princeton University's campus to address how arts and entrepreneurship share more than you think. Aaron: I think it's really important to be there on the 15th because this is a chance to share best practices with colleagues, with the future colleagues that are coming into the field. And with people who've been doing it for a long time. Pilar: It's important for alumni to come to the Arts & Entrepreneurship Day, because sometimes we don't give ourselves the time to stop and ask the question, are we solving problems in the most efficient way? Is there some way new that we could be addressing some of the obstacles that we're facing? And how do we connect with others who are also in our same industry and fields? Pilar: Arts and entrepreneurship. You may think I'm an artist, not an entrepreneur. Au contraire, mon frere. Aaron and I are gonna run a workshop, opening your mind to how, as an artist, you are also an entrepreneur. Pilar: Did you know the conference is free? Aaron: I did. Pilar: But it'd be great if people registered in advance on the Princeton Entrepreneurship Council's website. Aaron: Thanks, Pilar. We'll see you on the 15th. Pilar: See you on the 15th. Thanks, Aaron. (Drum and bass musical transition) Welcome back to the Princeton Spark. We’ve been exploring mentorship with Lynda Clarizio and Laurence Latimer, a couple of our OfficeHours mentors at PEC. We’ve established that mentoring is a relationship, and should be entered into it with that understanding. So now that we have that, what should a mentee do next? Here’s Laurence: Laurence: Be very intentional with every conversation, and to try to break it down to be as discrete as possible. So don't get on the phone and say, “Oh, I just have an idea. I just want to talk something through.” (Yeah.) Even if that's the case, you say, “Hey, here's the thing that I want to engage on with you and here's why I want to engage with you. Here's what a good outcome would be for me.” Just apply that structure. You may just totally throw it out once you actually get on the call, but it breaks it down into something that's manageable, both for the mentee, to force that person to be thoughtful about what they really need to get. And for the mentor, they know what they're getting into on any particular conversation. (Right.) And they can prep themselves mentally, maybe there's there's research, something they want to reference. And it just makes it easier for frankly, both folks to being thoughtful about, what’s the x of the topic? What's the outcome you'd like to see? If it’s, “I need to make a decision,” or “I need your insight on X, Y, and Z” or, if there's somebody else that you could recommend, but I guess whatever the right outcome that you think is… (Yeah) to start there, and then have that two, three, four key questions that you want to make sure you get answered as you work towards the desired outcome. Here is Lynda again. Lynda: First know what you want out of the relationship. And second, you know, make sure that what you ask out of a mentor, is a reasonable ask relative to the skills of the mentor, and also relative to the type of relationship that you want. So, let me give you a few examples of things that don't work. I've had some mentees reach out to me with excessive asks, like, they will call and say, "Will you write my marketing plan? Will you help me write my business plan?" I think that that is an overreaching ask to ask a mentor. And a more appropriate ask would be, "Hey, I'm working on my marketing plan, and you're an expert in B2B marketing and I'm really struggling over this one assumption, what's your feedback on that?" And that's an example of a more focused ask. You can't ask a mentor to do all your work for you. But what you can do is leverage the expertise of that mentor. But again, I see time and time again, mentees come to me basically saying, "Do my work for me." So again, I'm not trying to scold them, but just to say, the relationship can be incredibly valuable if you're very focused on what you want. (Bossa nova guitar musical transition) Mentoring is a relationship. Check. (Cymbal hit) Be intentional and specific in your ask. Check. (Cymbal hit) Of course, don’t ask the mentor to do your work for you. Check. (Cymbal hit) What else? One of the what elses, is to be mindful of your mentor’s time. Their time, every 168 hours of the week, is valuable. They didn’t get to be successful and worthy of your attention if they didn’t treat their own time with great value and respect. A mentor invests that half-hour, or hour–whatever it is–on you, the mentee. (Cymbal crash) Laurence: And so the feedback loop on that investment is follow up. So even if it's almost any conversation is going to be some kind of follow up. But even if, say a week, a month later, whatever it is, "Hey, we talked about x, I was looking for this kind of outcome or this kind of feedback or this kind of thing. Here's how I've used that or here's what came of that. Here is the outcome that I actually decided." It may not even be something that's actionable, but it just closes the loop. And it shows that the time that was spent there provided some kind of real actionable value. It's a good way of frankly, separating yourself, it demonstrates a level of integrity that's frankly rare these days. But it also cements your place in the mind of the person you spoke to, the mind of a mentor. It’s important to think about what you have to offer, and I’m not just talking right now to mentors. Hello, young person. Hello, early career person. You really do have something to offer. Laurence: When I was in college, or even the first year or two of my job, it was very hard for me to think about the things that I had to offer people who might have been 10 years, 15, 20 years, 30 years in their career that seems to know everything, know everybody, and were so just wise. And the reality is I now can pivot or cross the threshold to the second half of my career, my ability to understand what's happening with the next generation kind of, you know, younger than me or two generations younger than me is so limited. (Yes.) And so my conversations when I talk to college students and sometimes even high school students or people early in their career, it's fascinating for me to learn how people think, to learn what are key trends, to learn just the dynamic of being early in your career, whether it's technology related or industry related or geography related. So you have as a young person, so much more to offer than you realize. But it's important that you think about “What do I have to offer this person for them to invest in me?” (Electronic drum musical transition) So we’ve heard from two successful mentors. Now let’s meet someone on the mentee side of the table. This is Ashanthi. I'm Ashanti Mathai, graduated from the class of 1995 in chemical engineering, also did a second thesis in creative writing and poetry with Paul Muldoon, which was part of the amazing Princeton experience that I had. I am currently the CEO of a startup called Pocket Naloxone Corporation. Naloxone is the magical antidote that is administered to somebody who has an opioid overdose and is unconscious and is able to revive them and sustain them to be able to taken to an emergency room to be taken care of. As you may be reading in the news, 130 Americans are dying every day from opioid overdoses. And last January, the FDA put out an unprecedented call for over-the-counter naloxone product, and Pocket Naloxone Corporation aims to answer that call, and is in the process of developing and going through the FDA process with current OTC product. So what is your advice for mentees to have a good, productive relationship with a mentor? In a situation like this, just being as specific as you can on what you are seeking advice or guidance on, I think those ensure that your conversations and interactions are productive. And also just help your mentors think ahead and be prepared to provide advice and guidance, referrals to you know, other resources as needed, and for yourself as well. I think it just helps you frame the key issues and really identify what is the problem or the challenge that you're facing. So I think overall, just trying to be very specific in your ask of the mentors I think is good. She recently had used our OfficeHours platform as she was building her startup. Can you talk more about the outcomes that you had from those sessions? We were able to get input early on as we were starting our fundraising and just to just map out the different funding sources and just discuss that would make sense. For example, you know, angel investors, family offices, early stage VCs, and so on and be able to sort of prioritize effort as we were getting going, and they had situation described just getting input on how do you do very early stage valuation. And also get a specific feedback on, say, a certain clause in our convertible note paperwork was extremely valuable, and I just appreciated the fast response as well. When we come back from the break, we’ll explore...the other side of the table. Next, some best practices for mentors themselves. (Ad 2) Hello podcast listener. I would love for you to send this podcast to a friend, but if you’re like me, and I know I am, I’m probably washing the dishes as I listen to this podcast. So you probably can’t quite send this to your friend right this second. That’s okay, just remember this handy dandy acronym and send it when you’re done the dishes. Ready? Here’s the acronym: S-P-A-R-K. Spark. Send Podcast Along; Recommend Kindly That’s: Send Podcast Along; Recommend Kindly. And send the Princeton Spark to a friend. Now on with the show. Welcome back to the Princeton Spark, a production of the Princeton Entrepreneurship Council. We’ve been on an odyssey of mentorship, first from the mentee side of the table. Now, let’s walk around to the mentor’s side. (Walking sounds) I asked Lynda Clarizio for her insight on being an effective mentor. Lynda: I think it's super important that if you're a mentor first that you have the time to do it and you're interested in doing it. And what I usually try to do as a mentor is try to find out how I can really help the person that I'm mentoring. And you know, I look at it in three buckets. First capital, is the person looking for capital? The second thing that you bring as a mentor is really your advice and expertise. So I'm personally an expert in the areas of marketing, media and commerce. But you know, that's something that's very, very valuable to a mentee. So what sort of advice can you bring? Can you provide advice on fundraising? Can you provide advice on recruiting, you know, someone might be looking for a CMO or CTO or CRO, can you provide advice on marketing. The third thing that you really bring as a mentor is your connections and your networking. And it's, it's an asset that you might not even realize that you have, you know, but as you've proceeded and advanced in your career, one of the biggest assets that you've built is all of the people that you know, all of the relationships that you have. And often when you're talking to someone that's starting a business, or it's looking for mentorship, they don't have that. So a lot of what I do with my mentoring relationships is I'll say to the person I'm mentoring, Hey, I know exactly the person that you should talk to, can I make that introduction for you? Can I help you do that? And you know, it sounds like a trivial thing to do, but it's often really, really important and makes all the difference. So it's those three things, capital, advice and networking and connections. So that’s mentorship, from both sides of the table. Before we sign off on this season 2 premiere episode, I should mention that the OfficeHours platform is available for Princeton students, faculty, and alumni for free. You can find it at entrepreneurs dot princeton edu slash officehours. Here is Laurence talking about OfficeHours. (Start music background) Laurence: A great way if you're a Princeton alum, a great way of engaging with people who want to provide context and provide and share their insights, right, and in doing so in a very thoughtful, intentional way, and in a way that is designed to be transactional. Yeah, notwithstanding what I said at the very beginning, this is actually a vehicle that's designed to be transactional. I would encourage people, particularly if they're at the earliest stages of trying to figure stuff out like this is a way to have some low cost conversations that are designed to be transactional, may develop into something but it's not specifically designed to develop into a long term relationship, designed to answer a very specific question and a very specific time. The Princeton Spark is a production of the Princeton Entrepreneurship Council, which is Anne-Marie Maman, Don Seitz, Lauren Bender, Diane DeLorenzo, Neal Bituin, and produced by me, Wright Seneres. Engineered by Dan Kearns at the Princeton Broadcast Center and Wright Seneres on location at the Altman Building in New York City. I designed the sound and music for this episode. Our theme music is by the Treadmills, who are me on guitar and bass, and John Damond on drums. Special thanks to Alice Seneres, Scott Colan, Don Seitz, Pilar Castro-Kiltz, Aaron Landsman, and Jonathan Sweeney. The comments and suggestions box is always open – send an email to sparkpod@princeton.edu. If there is a topic on entrepreneurship or a person that you would like to hear from, please let us know. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at @princetonspark. You’ll find some extra content there, you can put some faces to the names and the voices that you heard on this episode, and more. We also have a newsletter so you don’t miss out on anything Princeton Spark. You can subscribe at PrincetonSpark.com. The views expressed by our guests on the show are theirs and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Princeton Entrepreneurship Council or Princeton University. If you rate and review us in the iTunes store, it really does help the show. I know every podcaster says this, but it’s the actual truth. If you haven’t subscribed to the show yet, please do so wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening. Princeton Entrepreneurship Council is actively planning a number of events for entrepreneurial alumni across the country, in New York City, San Francisco, Nashville, Boston, Atlanta, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Washington, D.C. Help us plan them! Contact Anne-Marie Maman, class of 1984 at amaman@princeton.edu or Don Seitz, class of 1979 at donseitz@princeton.edu to get involved. Lifting as you climb (Drum fill)